What makes the systems engineer successful?

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Joseph Kasser, and welcome to this podcast where the AI team does a deep dive into some application of systems thinking. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're going to be diving into the world of systems engineering. Specifically, what makes somebody successful in this field. We've got excerpts from Howard Eisner's book, what Makes the Systems Engineer Successful. [00:00:26] Speaker C: Right. [00:00:26] Speaker B: And insights from Incosi fellows to guide us. Our mission is to help you pinpoint those key qualities and experiences that lead to success in systems engineering. [00:00:38] Speaker C: Yeah. It's fascinating how Eisner's book goes beyond, you know, the usual technical know how. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:00:44] Speaker C: He argues that while those skills are important, there's a whole other layer of personal attributes that are crucial for true success. [00:00:52] Speaker B: That's intriguing. I always thought a successful engineer was all about technical brilliance and problem solving. What kind of personal attributes are we talking about here? [00:01:00] Speaker C: Well, Eisner looks at real world examples of what he calls super systems engineers. Folks like Leonardo da Vinci, Admiral Rickover, and even Steve Jobs. He argues that despite working in very different fields, they all shared certain personal traits that contributed to their success. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Da Vinci as a systems engineer, that's a new one. He did design a ton of things, from flying machines to anatomical drawings. [00:01:24] Speaker C: Exactly. And that's where it gets interesting. Eisner says these super systems engineers were all incredible listeners and had what he calls a synthesizer mindset. The ability to take different pieces of information and put them together into a coherent whole. [00:01:40] Speaker B: So it's not just about being technically skilled, but also about being able to see the big picture and connect the dots in unexpected ways. [00:01:48] Speaker C: Precisely. Think about your own work or even your personal life. How often does effective listening lead to better problem solving? Or how about when you synthesize different ideas to come up with a truly innovative solution? These skills are valuable across the board. [00:02:04] Speaker B: This is making me rethink my whole approach. So tell me, how does Eisner break down these crucial attributes? [00:02:09] Speaker C: He identifies seven key attributes or pillars of systems engineering success. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Seven. [00:02:14] Speaker C: They fall into three categories. Mindset, skills, and knowledge. [00:02:17] Speaker B: I like where this is going. Break it down for me. What are these categories all about? [00:02:21] Speaker C: Let's start with mindset. This is all about how you approach challenges and interact with others. Two of the pillars fall into this category. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:28] Speaker C: The listener and the curious systems thinker. The listener highlights the importance of truly absorbing information, not just passively hearing it. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:38] Speaker C: Think back to the Challenger disaster investigation. Physicist Richard Feynman was able to uncover a critical design flaw by actively listening and asking insightful questions. [00:02:49] Speaker B: That's a powerful example of how crucial active listening can be, not just in engineering, but in any field where decisions have a real impact. [00:02:57] Speaker C: Exactly. Now, the curious systems thinker is all about that innate desire to understand how things work on a deeper level. They're always asking why and looking for connections. Just like da Vinci with his wide range of studies. Peter Senge, who coined the term learning organization, would argue that this kind of systems thinking is essential for any organization that wants to thrive. [00:03:17] Speaker B: So it's not just about being curious, but about applying that curiosity to see the interconnectedness of things and understand the bigger picture. [00:03:25] Speaker C: Absolutely. That kind of systems thinking helps you identify potential problems, anticipate unintended consequences, and develop solutions that address the root causes of issues. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Like that Einstein quote. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity fuels progress. [00:03:43] Speaker C: Couldn't agree more. Now let's move on to skills, which encompasses three pillars. The synthesizer, the manager leader, and the perseverer. We've already touched on the synthesizer and their ability to connect seemingly unrelated pieces of information into a coherent whole. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Right. Like piecing together a complex puzzle to create something entirely new. [00:04:05] Speaker C: Exactly. They're the master architects of the systems engineering world. And they rely on frameworks like DoDAF, Department of Defense Architecture Framework and Eisner's own EAM Eisner Architecting Method to guide their design process. [00:04:18] Speaker B: So it's about understanding the big picture and having the skills to build something new from the ground up. [00:04:23] Speaker C: You got it. And they understand that the best solution might not be the first one they come up with. So they develop and analyze multiple options before making a final decision. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Okay, that makes a lot of sense. What about the manager leader? How does leadership fit into the picture? [00:04:36] Speaker C: Well, think about it. Systems engineering projects are often incredibly complex and involve coordinating lots of moving parts and different people. A successful systems engineer needs to not only understand the technical side, but also be able to lead and motivate a team, manage resources effectively, and make tough decisions when needed. [00:04:57] Speaker B: So it's not just about being a technical whiz. It's about having those people skills to navigate the complexities of projects and organizations. [00:05:06] Speaker C: Exactly. Eisner emphasizes the importance of core project management competencies like planning, communication and problem solving. And even touches on the Myers Briggs type Indicator MBTI as a tool for understanding different personality types and improving team dynamics. [00:05:21] Speaker B: I've always found the MBTI fascinating, but never thought to apply it in a systems engineering context. [00:05:26] Speaker C: It can be incredibly insightful, especially when you're leading a diverse team. [00:05:30] Speaker B: This is giving me a much broader perspective on what it takes to succeed in this field. What about the perseverer? What sets them apart? [00:05:39] Speaker C: Systems engineering projects can be challenging, with unexpected roadblocks and setbacks along the way. The perseverer is the one who doesn't give up, who pushes through those obstacles and keeps their focus even when things get tough. They embody the concept of grit, that relentless determination to succeed. [00:05:59] Speaker B: I'm sensing a theme here. These super systems engineers aren't just brilliant, they're incredibly tenacious and driven. They don't let setbacks define them, they use them as fuel to keep going. [00:06:09] Speaker C: Exactly. Eisner draws on examples from Angela Duckworth's book Grit, highlighting stories like Jeff Bezos and Will Schwartz, who achieved remarkable success through sheer perseverance. [00:06:19] Speaker B: So we've covered the mindset and skills categories with five of the seven pillars. What about the last category? Knowledge. [00:06:25] Speaker C: That brings us to the final two pillars, which are all about having the right knowledge base. Okay, the systems engineering process expert and the domain expert. [00:06:34] Speaker B: All right, let's dive into those. Tell me more about the systems engineering process expert. [00:06:38] Speaker C: This pillar focuses on the importance of mastering systems engineering methodologies and frameworks. It's about knowing the ins and outs of the systems engineering life cycle, from requirements gathering to verification and validation and everything in between. [00:06:54] Speaker B: So it's about having that deep, practical knowledge of how to effectively execute a systems engineering project. [00:07:01] Speaker C: Precisely. Eisner highlights the INCOKO expert Systems Engineering Professional ESEP certification as a benchmark for this expertise. And he even delves into the details of the ISO, ie some 5288 standard, which outlines best practices for systems engineering. [00:07:19] Speaker B: I can see how crucial that kind of standardized knowledge is for ensuring consistency and quality, especially in complex projects. [00:07:25] Speaker C: Absolutely. And that leads us to our final pillar, the domain expert. This is where specialized knowledge of a particular field comes into play. [00:07:33] Speaker B: So this is where the rubber meets the road. You can be a master of systems engineering processes. Right. But without specific domain knowledge, you're bound to miss critical details, right? [00:07:43] Speaker C: Exactly. For example, if you're developing a new medical device, you need a solid understanding of the relevant medical principles and technologies. Or if you're working on missile defense system. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:56] Speaker C: You need deep knowledge of aerospace engineering, radar systems, and so on. [00:08:00] Speaker B: It sounds like successful systems engineers need to be incredibly adaptable, constantly learning and expanding their knowledge base to keep up with their chosen domain. [00:08:09] Speaker C: That's a key takeaway. They need that broad understanding of systems engineering principles, but also the ability to dive deep into specific areas of expertise. It's a balancing act. [00:08:21] Speaker B: It sounds like it. This is giving me a whole new appreciation for what it takes to excel in this field. It's not just about being technically proficient. It's about developing a certain mindset, honing your skills and continuously expanding your knowledge. [00:08:34] Speaker C: Well said. And we've only just scratched the surface. There's so much more to explore. [00:08:38] Speaker B: It really feels like we've uncovered a blueprint for success in systems engineering. [00:08:42] Speaker C: More like a compass, I'd say. It points you in the right direction, but the journey itself is unique for every individual. [00:08:48] Speaker B: I like that analogy. It highlights that there's no one size fits all approach and that continuous learning and growth are essential. [00:08:57] Speaker C: Exactly. And speaking of growth, Eisner emphasizes the importance of deliberate practice as a key ingredient for developing expertise. [00:09:06] Speaker B: Deliberate practice. I've heard that term before, especially in the context of mastering a skill. How does it apply here? [00:09:13] Speaker C: It's about being intentional with your practice, focusing on continuous improvement, not just mindless repetition. [00:09:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:21] Speaker C: Identify your weaknesses, target them strategically, and seek feedback to refine your approach. It's like an athlete training for the Olympics. They're constantly pushing their limits and refining their technique. [00:09:32] Speaker B: So it's about embracing a growth mindset and being willing to step outside your comfort zone to really hone your skills. [00:09:39] Speaker C: Precisely. It takes discipline and perseverance. But that's where the magic happens. It's what separates the good from the great, the average systems engineer from the super systems engineer. [00:09:49] Speaker B: This is making me rethink my professional development plan. It's not just about collecting certifications. It's about constantly challenging myself to grow. [00:09:57] Speaker C: Absolutely. And that learning never really stops. The field of systems engineering is always evolving. With new technologies and approaches emerging all the time. Even the most experienced experts need to stay curious and adaptable. [00:10:11] Speaker B: It's like systems engineering is its own kind of learning organization, constantly evolving and adapting. [00:10:16] Speaker C: I love that. And to add to our understanding, let's bring in the perspectives of those incoist fellows we mentioned earlier. Eisner included their insights in his book. And they offer a wealth of real world experience. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Right. I'm eager to hear what they had to say. What were some of the key takeaways? [00:10:32] Speaker C: Many of them echoed Eisner's emphasis on a strong educational foundation. They stressed the importance of mastering core engineering principles and being able to adapt to new technologies as they emerge. [00:10:43] Speaker B: That makes sense. You need a solid foundation to build on. [00:10:46] Speaker C: Absolutely. And beyond technical expertise. They highlighted the importance of those all important soft skills. Communication, teamwork and leadership. Being able to effectively Communicate complex technical concepts, collaborate with diverse teams and inspire others toward a shared vision are crucial for success. [00:11:05] Speaker B: So it's about being that well rounded engineer, someone who's not only technically brilliant, but also an effective communicator and leader. [00:11:13] Speaker C: Precisely. And some fellows even went beyond the typical engineering skills, stressing the need for creativity, problem solving and a big picture perspective. They believe successful systems engineers need to think outside the box, approach challenges from multiple angles and see the interconnectedness of various systems. [00:11:33] Speaker B: This is really painting a comprehensive picture of what it takes to thrive in this field. It's not just about mastering a set of skills. It's about cultivating a certain mindset, a way of approaching challenges and collaborating with others. [00:11:46] Speaker C: Well said. It's about being adaptable, resilient, and always eager to learn and grow. [00:11:52] Speaker B: This has been an incredibly insightful deep dive so far. I feel like I have a much deeper understanding of what it means to be a successful systems engineer. [00:11:59] Speaker C: Me too. But let's shift gears for a moment and make this truly relevant to you. The listener. Think about your own work and experiences. Which of these attributes resonate with you the most? Which do you consider your strengths? [00:12:10] Speaker B: That's a great question. I'm a naturally curious person. [00:12:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:14] Speaker B: And I love connecting seemingly unrelated ideas. So the curious systems thinker definitely speaks to me. What about you? [00:12:20] Speaker C: Hmm. Tough one. I've always been drawn to the intricacies of complex systems, so the synthesizer resonates with my analytical side. However, I've learned that I sometimes get a little too focused on the details and need to remind myself to step back and see the bigger picture. [00:12:37] Speaker B: We all have our strengths and areas for growth, and that's the beauty of this framework. It provides a roadmap for identifying those areas and working on them strategically. [00:12:47] Speaker C: Exactly. Eisner offers some practical tips for this, suggesting techniques like deliberate practice to sharpen specific skills and the importance of adopting a growth mindset to see challenges as opportunities for learning. He also emphasizes the value of finding mentors and learning from those who have already achieved success in the field. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Those are all great suggestions, but what about our listener who might not be writing a book or leading a professional organization? How can they apply these principles in their day to day work? [00:13:14] Speaker C: That's a great point. The key is to understand that these principles are applicable regardless of your role or level of experience. Even if you're not leading a massive project, you can benefit from being a good listener, honing your problem solving skills, or cultivating a synthesizer mindset. These skills are valuable in any field. Not just systems engineering. [00:13:35] Speaker B: So it's about taking these insights. [00:13:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker B: And figuring out how they fit into your own unique career path and goals. [00:13:42] Speaker C: Precisely. Maybe that means seeking opportunities to expand your knowledge base, taking on new challenges that push you outside your comfort zone, or simply making a conscious effort to practice those soft skills that are so essential for effective collaboration and leadership. [00:13:57] Speaker B: This has been incredibly insightful. It feels like we've uncovered a secret formula for success. [00:14:01] Speaker C: I wouldn't call it a secret formula, but rather a set of guiding principles that can make a real difference. And the best part is these principles are constantly evolving and expanding, just like systems themselves. Our understanding of what makes a successful systems engineer is dynamic and adaptable. [00:14:22] Speaker B: So it's not about reaching a final destination where you've mastered everything. It's about embracing the journey of continuous learning and growth. [00:14:29] Speaker C: Exactly. It's about cultivating that growth mindset we talked about earlier. [00:14:32] Speaker B: Oh. [00:14:32] Speaker C: Always seeking out new knowledge, new perspectives, and new challenges. And that's what makes systems engineering such a rewarding field. It's always pushing you to expand your horizons and see the world in new and innovative ways. [00:14:44] Speaker B: I'm curious, thinking back on everything we've covered, what's the one thing that really stands out to you? [00:14:49] Speaker C: That's a tough one. I think what resonates with me the most is the emphasis on the human element of systems engineering. It's not just about equations and algorithms. It's about understanding people, their needs, and how they interact with the systems we create. It's about communication, collaboration, and that unwavering perseverance that drives us to overcome challenges and create truly impactful solutions. [00:15:12] Speaker B: That's beautifully put. And it's a powerful reminder that at its core, systems engineering is about improving lives. Whether it's designing safer transportation systems, developing more efficient energy solutions, or creating technologies that connect people in meaningful ways. It's about using our knowledge and skills to make a positive impact on the world. [00:15:33] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think that sense of purpose, that drive to make a difference is what ultimately fuels the success of those super systems engineers. They're not just brilliant minds. They're passionate individuals committed to using their skills to solve real world problems and create a better future. [00:15:48] Speaker B: This deep dive has been so inspiring. I feel energized and ready to take on new challenges. [00:15:53] Speaker C: Me too. I hope our listeners feel the same way. [00:15:55] Speaker B: I know I do. Before we wrap up this deep dive, I want to leave you with something to ponder. If you could choose just one of these attributes to focus on developing further, which would it be and why? [00:16:07] Speaker C: That's a fantastic question to consider. It's almost like choosing a superpower to enhance your system's engineering journey. [00:16:14] Speaker B: It really is. So listeners take some time to reflect on that. In the meantime, keep exploring these concepts. We've only scratched the surface and there's a whole world of knowledge out there. Maybe check out Angela Duckworth's book Grit, explore the Incoase website, or even just chat with a fellow systems engineer about what success means to them. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Those are great suggestions. Remember, this journey of continuous learning and growth is a marathon, not a sprint. Embrace the challenges, celebrate the successes, and never stop questioning. Never stop exploring. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Well said. Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into the world of successful systems engineering. See you next time for another fascinating exploration. [00:16:55] Speaker A: I hope you enjoyed today's Deep Dive. If you'd like to discuss any of the questions or anything that you heard in the podcast or would like the team to do a deep dive into a different topic, please join the LinkedIn group and let me know. I look forward to providing you with many more deep dives into the applications of systems thinking. Take care.